Economic Social Justice
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Sam Madden
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Subject: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Thursday, July 16th 2015 @ 3:44 AM

In the United States and other countries we have a problem with growing income inequality. How do we as members of the Order of the Fighting Fathers fight against this inequality and achieve economic justice?

1.) By pushing for a raise in the minimum wage?

2.) By pointing out to Churches, (particularly Evangelical and Baptist type), that tithing to the church in order to sustain a higher lifestyle for their staff than many in their congregation is not economic justice. In this case is this truly giving to God?

3.) Do some churches exacerbate the growing income inequality when they do push for those already in poverty or living a low standard of living to tithe?

4.) Should we push for public universities to become more affordable by allocating more of our tax dollars to these institutions?

5.) How should salaries be set for professors and is this part of the problem?

6.) Should the government re-distribute wealth?

Obviously the list could go on as we continue to brainstorm. Should we even be concerned with economic justice and if so how do we go about fixing the income inequality gap, or should we even try?


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Thursday, July 16th 2015 @ 4:00 AM


Income inequality and economic justice are propaganda terms raised to the
forefront by scumbag politicians who are pandering for votes. Income
inequality, and by default economic justice, has always been with us and
will always be with us. The reasons are numerous but suffice it to say the
base reason is the knowledge the job requires to perform it. For example,
flipping burgers. How smart do you have to be to flip burgers?

Tool and die makers. How smart do you have to be to be a tool and die
maker?

Which should be paid more? Yep, you're right and bingo there's income
inequality. Income isn't based on paying people to be people. If that was
the case we'd all be millionaires. Income is based on your knowledge and
ability to perform.

Personally I don't see any income inequality. The politicians do and maybe
so do other non-performers who are less educated or unwilling to do what it
takes to become educated. I am not saying people with genuine disabilities,
for example, are non-performers. Those folks should enjoy a decent standard
of living regardless of we as a society provide it.

Since I want to keep this post short I won't ask for the definition of
either term which were not provided in the original post. They sound good
but anyone with a modicum of common sense wouldn't fall for goofy
propaganda terms without thinking them through.

Just my 2¢ and not intended to provoke outbursts of any kind.


Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Thursday, July 16th 2015 @ 4:15 AM

Tom,

No outburst here.

When I was a child being the oldest of six kids, my mom was stay at home and my father was a blue collar worker. His top salary in the 1980's was $26,000 a year. Yet all 6 of us kids had private catholic schooling all the way through high school.

When I went to college, (1978-1982) tuition and books at a public university cost $1,100 a semester. I worked full time during the summer at $8.50 an hour which more than covered my tuition and books for a year. Nowadays with tuition at public universities where they are, one would have to make $35 per hour to do what I did. If that isn't a growing divide I don't know what is.

Suffice it to say being a financial professional all my life, (I am 55), I have seen, experienced and studied the growing income inequality in this country. It does exist and I pointed it out in many writings and lectures long before it hit the major newpapers.

All one has to do is a study, (or refer to studies) that have been done with actual tax returns breaking up those returns into income categories. I will let you do the research yourself.


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Thursday, July 16th 2015 @ 5:14 AM


Sam,

I too am a product of a Catholic education.​ As for family life,
unfortunately I did not share your style. My mother was not stay at home
because she had to work. The old man was not very dependable, but that is
another story.

I graduated from college in 1972 with a degree in journalism. Prior to that
I was studying to become a CPA. I have been in the finance arena since the
early 1980's.

I would say we look at income inequality through different prisms. Of
course there is income inequality. The numerous tasks we all need to have
performed for us, hence we generate an income for the provider, are not
equal. Never will be.

Should the owner of a tree cutting service pay his workers the same wage as
he pays himself?

As for the studies, well, who did the study? What was their methodology?

Let's use my tree cutter. If you are saying his employee, we'll give him
only one, should be paid what all other tree cutters are being paid but
isn't, then there is income inequality. Unless, of course, different
regions have different rates for that service. Now if he is receiving less
in his region than other tree cutters, there indeed exists income
inequality. Unless, of course, he isn't very good at this trade or is a
novice learning the trade.

I guess it all boils down to a person's definition of income inequality.
When I owned an insurance agency I had people apply for a job. All of them
wanted the job until they realized they had to work. The funny part is
these wannabe agents didn't want the job when they learned they had to work
to get paid exactly the same as my commission rate. I was happy to provide
them income equality and they were happy telling me they didn't want the
job/position because they had to work.

Funny how income, equal or unequal, works, isn't it?

My advice to income inequality advocates is to give their money to those
who they believe are suffering from income inequality. If a person thinks
his neighbor, who makes only 40K a year while he makes 50K is a victim of
income inequality he should give his neighbor 5K. Income inequality problem
solved without a fuss.

There are alternatives of course. For example, having a certain group of
people pay more in taxes with those taxes distributed to the ones receiving
unequal income. Oh, wait, that already exists. It is called welfare. Should
a welfare recipient receive what you receive? If so, you've just settled
income inequality.

We could always redistribute the wealth of a given group we don't like.
Let's use muslims as an example. They don't enjoy the most favorable of
opinions in the US. Why don't we just confiscate their incomes and give it
to those who don't make as much?

That's just an example and I am not advocating we do that to any group btw.
But it does help solve income inequality if that is our goal.

Anyway, you posted a topic not only in the news but worth thinking about
even though I have an almost closed mind.


Dave Smith
Group Administrator

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by fatherdave on Friday, July 17th 2015 @ 7:32 PM

Hi Sam,

Thanks for raising the mother of all issues. :-(

In truth, this is a subject that has absorbed greater minds than us for many generations and may do so for generations to come. I will try to offer only one suggestion here - that the issue of economic justice should focus less on income inequality than on capital inequality.

I don't know if you've read Thomas Picketty's well-known work, "Capital in the Twenty-First Century". It is a book that is much quoted but (I'm told) seldom read in its entirety (as it is a large volume). Perhaps I was trying to make a point but I read it twice from cover to cover to make sure I absorbed what it was saying.

In short, as painful as income inequality is, the real issue, according to Picketty, is capital. Picketty's analysis suggests that we are fast moving towards capital inequality ratios similiar to those of pre-19th century Eurpose where the top 10% of the population will own and control about 95% of each nations wealth, and the top 1% about 75%.

Picketty points out that even the super-entrepenuers (who are halloed in American society) like Bill Gates are making more in interest earned on their capital now than they ever did through their astronomical incomes. This is where the real inequality lies, and the current pattern is for ever-increasing concentration of capital in the hands of the top 10% and 1%.

Picketty's solutin is a broadly based wealth tax, administered on a global level. The chance of this ever happening is slim indeed, of course, but I think that this is where the church and other humanitarian groups would do best to focus their reform efforts.

That's enough for now. ;-)

Dave

________________________________
Rev. David B. Smith, B.A., B.Th., Dip A.
Parish Priest, Pro Boxer, Social Activist, Father of Four

Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Sunday, July 19th 2015 @ 4:14 AM

Thanks for your thoughts Father Dave, particularly on the subject of income inequality versus wealth. I am by the way reading Piketty's book but am only about 1/3 of the way through.


Dave Smith
Group Administrator

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by fatherdave on Sunday, July 19th 2015 @ 8:48 AM

Well done for getting a third of the way through, brother! From what I hear most people don't get that far! It is s tough read, though I listen to my books on audio and I think that made it easier.

I'd be interested to discuss Picketty further with you on this forum. Perhaps that will motivate you to get through the other two-thirds. ;-)

________________________________
Rev. David B. Smith, B.A., B.Th., Dip A.
Parish Priest, Pro Boxer, Social Activist, Father of Four

Dave Smith
Group Administrator

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by fatherdave on Monday, July 20th 2015 @ 12:12 AM

Well done for getting a third of the way through, brother! From what I hear most people don't get that far! It is s tough read, though I listen to my books on audio and I think that made it easier.

I'd be interested to discuss Picketty further with you on this forum. Perhaps that will motivate you to get through the other two-thirds. ;-)

________________________________
Rev. David B. Smith, B.A., B.Th., Dip A.
Parish Priest, Pro Boxer, Social Activist, Father of Four

Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Monday, July 27th 2015 @ 1:39 AM

I just got back from visiting family and will be getting through the other 2/3's of Picketty's book and will also pull my notes from the first 1/3.

Now here is an interesting note regarding the lack of ability of today's younger generation to create their own wealth.

My nephew who is 30 graduated with a law degree a few years back. In the process he racked up approximately $275,000 in student debt. Upon graduation first year law students were being offered jobs ranging from $40k a year to $70k a year.

He now states that going to law school was the worse decision he could have made. I don't see him accumulating any type of wealth in his lifetime which of course would contribute to the wealth divide. His parents are not well to do so he also will not have any type of significant inheritance handed down to him, which Picketty does mention as a factor in the wealth divide.

My niece went for her Masters in Psychology and is a professional therapist. Her student loans are well in excess of $150k, so it's the same scenario for her.

So while maybe the income divide may not be a major factor, the debt of student loans today is a significant factor in the inability of the younger generation to accumulate wealth, unless of course they will end up with a large inheritance upon their parents death. But then again if a child's parents had a lot of wealth, then people like my niece and nephew would have never needed to take out such large student loans in order to pay for their schooling.


Dave Smith
Group Administrator

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by fatherdave on Monday, July 27th 2015 @ 2:06 PM

The point you make is entirely in line with Picketty's observations. He points out that even in the case of super-entrepreneurs (like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs) they make more on this investments once they retire than they ever do via income through their working careers.

Inheritance is therefore the key issue in the accumulation of wealth. As you point out, your nephew wouldn't have needed to get himself into debt if he'd had a solid inheritance behind him. Moreover, he would have been able to afford the best university that probably would have launched him into a job with a higher pay-bracket, particularly given the family connections he would have had (assuming he had wanted to study and work, of course).

As an interesting aside, I believe the insistence on celibacy amongst Catholic clergy goes back, not to any issue with sex as such, but with concerns over inheritance. I think it was Pope Gregory VII who was dismayed at seeing Bishops accumulate great empires that were then passed on to thier progeny (along with the office)! The Pope decreed celibacy with the result that all the material wealth of the clergy returned to the church when they died!

________________________________
Rev. David B. Smith, B.A., B.Th., Dip A.
Parish Priest, Pro Boxer, Social Activist, Father of Four

Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Tuesday, July 28th 2015 @ 12:33 AM


Interesting thought on the Pope. While I can't prove it, I can believe it.
How else would the church get the funds to continue?

Speaking of inheritance - I happen to sell life insurance. In the US, at
least today (the laws may change)​, it is the single greatest toolfor
people to accumulate wealth. Tax free at that. This isn't a commercial so
you'll buy a policy for me, it is an educational statement so you know
where to put your money today. Talk about a cash accumulation vehicle and
nothing comes close.

Oh yeah, I've talked to a lot of people and a majority of them still
believe a stock market type of investment will provide their nest egg. The
Wall St types have done a great job in embalming the brain into a singular
view. So, inheritance is possible but you have to be smart enough to take
advantage of what is available.

Sam, sorry about your relatives debt. But, the system is set up to ensnare
these young professionals. I won't go into a treatise on how that's done
but suffice it to say your relatives are living proof. Best of luck to them


Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Tuesday, July 28th 2015 @ 1:07 AM

Tom, I would be interested in knowing what your take is on why the cost of a higher education has gotten so out of wack compared to when we went to school?

I mentioned it before but will again. When I went to college in the late 70's to early 80's, I was able to work a full time job in the summer making $8.50 per hour and only 2/3's of my summer earnings were needed to cover tuition and books for two semesters at a State Public University.

Nowadays to achieve what I did a college student going to the same State University would have to make $35 per hour at a summer job.

Why did this huge divide occur so that the odds are stacked against the younger generation of today than it was years ago?


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Tuesday, July 28th 2015 @ 1:24 AM


Sam,

In a nutshell, the colleges discovered a new and EASY revenue source. The
government by the way was a big contributor to helping colleges start a
loan program. It some cases they allowed the colleges to revamp a program
to make it easier for little Johnny or Suzie to get money. This thing has
roots that smell.

If one thinks about the purpose of a college, it isn't to educate. It is to
self perpetuate so they can continue to exist and offer the illusion of an
education.​

Yes I know, people almost always come out knowing more then when they went
in. But that more almost never is "enough" to start earning the supposed
big bucks tossed around by colleges as the prize for a college education.

Now let's enter easy money loans for students. The entrance door is now
open to everyone with a good to decent credit history. That's it. A good
credit history. These people have been drinking the kool aid offered by the
education bureaucracy and voluntarily walk into the system.

There was a great article written about the inflationary factor of student
loans on the college cost pricing scheme. I saw it on Yahoo last week. You
may want to search for it.

I am not saying don't go to college. I am saying weigh the costs and
benefits. Not picking on your kin folk who became a lawyer but look at the
field. The US has a lawyer for every 100 square feet of land. No real need
to justify paying a newbie grad anymore than 50K or so. There are a lot of
them. He'll make more if he specializes and grows his reputation but
generally speaking this doesn't happen. So, is his cost benefit ratio worth
it? Only he can answer that.

Again, I hope they find a better paying position. Their load is crushing to
say the least.


Dave Smith
Group Administrator

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by fatherdave on Wednesday, July 29th 2015 @ 4:59 PM

Here's a curious aside:

As you know, I just returned from 10 days in Syria.

There's a country torn apart by war. Many people assume it is a failed state but:

  • hospitals are functioning and health-care is free across the country
  • schools and universities are all functioning and full and all education is free
  • we even visited the aquatic centre in Damascus where over 2,000 children were getting swimming lessons each week at a cost of $5/month.
For all the criticisms that are made of the Syrian government it's evidently getting some things right!
________________________________
Rev. David B. Smith, B.A., B.Th., Dip A.
Parish Priest, Pro Boxer, Social Activist, Father of Four

Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Thursday, July 30th 2015 @ 1:57 AM

Tom, I agree with you on the field of lawyers. But like I stated my niece has the same problem. She graduated with a Masters in Psychology and her loans while not as bad as her brothers still are in excess of $150,000. (She is now a professional therapist).

By the way, when I was in Wisconsin last week I attended my great nephew's Baptism. His father, (my nephew the lawyer), stated that because of his experience, (and his sisters), he will encourage his son to seek a trade instead. Interestingly, I read a recent article which stated there is a huge shortage of welders and you can easily make 60k to 80k a year.

Father Dave, interesting notes on Syria by the way. Thanks for sharing.


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Friday, July 31st 2015 @ 1:44 AM


Sam,

It is my belief from what I've been reading your niece will do quite well
financially as a therapist. Believe or not the need is growing and not
disappearing.​

As for the trades, at least in this country, there is a great shortage in
all of them. It is my personal belief, once again persona. belief right,
but there are trades jobs up the yazoo just no or few candidates.



On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 7:58 AM, The Order of the Fighting Fathers <
fightingfathers@igroops.com> wrote:

> -- The following message was posted by (SamMadden) in the "Social
> Justice" category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group =
--
>
> Tom, I agree with you on the field of lawyers. But like I stated my niece
> has the same problem. She graduated with a Masters in Psychology and her
> loans while not as bad as her brothers still are in excess of $150,000.
> (She is now a professional therapist).
>
> By the way, when I was in Wisconsin last week I attended my great nephew'=
s
> Baptism. His father, (my nephew the lawyer), stated that because of his
> experience, (and his sisters), he will encourage his son to seek a trade
> instead. Interestingly, I read a recent article which stated there is a
> huge shortage of welders and you can easily make 60k to 80k a year.
>
> Father Dave, interesting notes on Syria by the way. Thanks for sharing.
>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You are receiving e-mail notifications for *every post*.  These notifi=
cations can be turned off in your user settings at <a href="http://www.ig=
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Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Friday, July 31st 2015 @ 1:59 AM


Let me add this site:

http://thesovereigninvestor.com/us-economy/is-american-economy-recovered/

as more fuel to the fire for not needing college.​

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 7:44 AM, The Order of the Fighting Fathers <
fightingfathers@igroops.com> wrote:

> -- The following message was posted by (Tkozo) in the "General"
> category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group --
>
> Sam,
>
> It is my belief from what I've been reading your niece will do quite well
> financially as a therapist. Believe or not the need is growing and not
> disappearing.​
>
> As for the trades, at least in this country, there is a great shortage in
> all of them. It is my personal belief, once again persona. belief right,
> but there are trades jobs up the yazoo just no or few candidates.
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 7:58 AM, The Order of the Fighting Fathers <
> fightingfathers@igroops.com> wrote:
>
> > -- The following message was posted by (SamMadden) in the "Social
> > Justice" category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group=
=
> --
> >
> > Tom, I agree with you on the field of lawyers. But like I stated my nie=
ce
> > has the same problem. She graduated with a Masters in Psychology and he=
r
> > loans while not as bad as her brothers still are in excess of $150,000.
> > (She is now a professional therapist).
> >
> > By the way, when I was in Wisconsin last week I attended my great
> nephew'=
> s
> > Baptism. His father, (my nephew the lawyer), stated that because of his
> > experience, (and his sisters), he will encourage his son to seek a trad=
e
> > instead. Interestingly, I read a recent article which stated there is a
> > huge shortage of welders and you can easily make 60k to 80k a year.
> >
> > Father Dave, interesting notes on Syria by the way. Thanks for sharing.
> >
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> You are receiving e-mail notifications for *every post*. These notifi=
> cations can be turned off in your user settings at <a href="http://www.=
ig=
> roops.com/members/fightingfathers+prefs+comm" target="_blank" rel="no=
re=
> ferrer">http://www.igroops.com/members/fightingfathers+prefs+comm</a><br>
> <br>
> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
>
> --94eb2c0885bef9b2b3051c18bcfc--
>
>
> <br>
<br>
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--001a1138ee8c09c71b051c18f23c--

Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Friday, July 31st 2015 @ 2:51 AM

Tom,

On the contrary she is not doing well. And again it is not only because of the huge student debt load she is carrying, but because therapists don't make that much relative to a debt that well exceeds $150,000.

She is living in a rundown 1 bedroom apartment. Her son sleeps on the couch.

Look at these salaries for therapists from U.S. News and World Report. How do you suppose someone making $40k to $50k a year is suppose to live and pay off a $150k loan at the same time?

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/marriage-and-family-therapist/salary


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Friday, July 31st 2015 @ 7:28 AM


Sam,

Of course I don't know the terms of her contract or working agreement. Here
is what I do know.

Many of the student loans are being forgiven outright due to their terms
and how the institution arranged said same financing. I have not done any
research into this field so I'm afraid I don't have a go to resource at the
moment.

However, this may be one of those blessings in disguise for her. Let's
assume she researches the field and learns the ins and outs of getting out
of student loans legally. Do you think others will want to learn these
methods? Could she then sell her book on Kindle, ebay, amazon, etc? While I
publish a small NL (875 subs) I'd certainly give her an excellent write up.

There are bloggers who would give her a write up for free and I feel Yahoo
Finance and other such Internet orgs would accept an article by her=
giving
her a sig line linked to her book. I think both credit.com and
creditkarma.com would love to publish her work.

You don't have to tell me this takes time. I know that. But, $150,000 is a
long time as well if you catch the synonymizing of the phrase. She has
knowledge she can sell. People buy knowledge.

Let's look at all the dating sites that have popped up. Hell, we even
have one that is for farmers only for God sake. I would feel certain she
has the expertise to offer a report on how to discipline your child w/o
beating it to death for example. People PAY money for this information.

Please notice I am talking about offering a service as opposed to getting a
second job as the night clerk at a 7-11. I don't know her talents, desires
or ambitions. But I do know $150,000 would have awaken mine yesterday.

Mind you, I've always been this way. I don't care what the controversy was
or is I look at me as the only solution. How can I fix it, make it better,
make it go away, learn from it or do whatever it takes to make me
satisfied. Hey, that makes me a therapist. My bill will be in the mail =
.

That sir is what I propose to solve the problem. By the way, I once was
there. I'll save the sordid details because nobody wants to hear a sob
story from a 70 year old man.

Again, good luck to her. One room run down flats was a step up to me once
upon a time btw.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:51 AM, The Order of the Fighting Fathers <
fightingfathers@igroops.com> wrote:

> -- The following message was posted by (SamMadden) in the "Social
> Justice" category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group =
--
>
> Tom,
>
> On the contrary she is not doing well. And again it is not only because o=
f
> the huge student debt load she is carrying, but because therapists don't
> make that much relative to a debt that well exceeds $150,000.
>
> She is living in a rundown 1 bedroom apartment. Her son sleeps on the
> couch.
>
> Look at these salaries for therapists from U.S. News and World Report. Ho=
w
> do you suppose someone making $40k to $50k a year is suppose to live and
> pay off a $150k loan at the same time?
>
>
> http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/marriage-and-family-therapist/s=
alary
>
>
>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You are receiving e-mail notifications for *every post*.  These notifi=
cations can be turned off in your user settings at <a href="http://www.ig=
roops.com/members/fightingfathers+prefs+comm" target="_blank" rel="nore=
ferrer">http://www.igroops.com/members/fightingfathers+prefs+comm</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>

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Sam Madden
Full

Subject: RE: Economic Social Justice
Social Justice
posted by SamMadden on Saturday, August 1st 2015 @ 12:45 AM

Tom,

You try to make it sound so easy and state you have been there too. No one from your or my generation has been in a position that couldn't pay for their college on their own by working full time during the summer, or part time during during the school year.

I have been where you are, I have not been where my niece, nephew and the young generation of today are.

It is not that easy to sell knowledge and talents today and people are getting paid less for it when they do because of the internet, (there are just so many that are doing it). For example:

A friend of mine has a creative writing degree, the best she could do with a lot of work mind you, is find a website to pay her $25 per article. When I told her that the minimum I ever got paid was $175 for an article it blew her mind. But that was before the proliferation of the internet. Nowadays even with my experience and being published in major magazines it is very difficult to get paid anything decent, if at all, for writing a very knowledgable well written piece.

As far as forgiveness on a student loan legally, that is close to a myth. A lot of students today are choosing to default on purpose because of the loan burden but their are consequences. And the way my family was raised, is that your word and signature means something.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/default

And as this second link shows, forgiveness of a student loan is very difficult to obtain and must have extraordinary circumstances which the vast majority of college graduates today do not qualify under.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation


Tom Koziol
Full

Subject: Re: [fightingfathers] RE: Economic Social Justice
General
posted by Tkozo on Saturday, August 1st 2015 @ 2:16 AM


Sam,

I hear your pain. If there was truly no way out, we might as well close the
country and roll over and die. Here is​ what it sounds like to me w=
hen I
hear your writing: Desperation everywhere!!!

Good God man, you have a brain they have a brain. People will always be
looking for something. It is called the life cycle. We are born, we live
and we die. Do you think you and yours can find a niche somewhere in that
cycle?

Here are two forums to visit to see if any of the members can help:
http://sowpub.com and http://warriorforum.com. Both are centered around
marketing and sales. Read some of the posts, participate and see how fast
you get help.

Here's another shocker. I sell life insurance. Everybody needs the stuff
but very few actually buy. But all complain when there's a death and the
money train stops. It should be a no brainer to buy the stuff but there
will always be people who won't. I tell you this because I've heard all the
excuses in the world and none of them really matter when the big guy calls.
Life cycle. Do you think people need help in every one of its components?

I used to sell my writing too. $1200, or more an article. Today the
Internet has reduced my payment to $5. I elect not to write articles for
that amount. The only exception I make is for a friend and that is usually
for free. So what am I saying?. I understand how times have changed and I
have changed with the times. Do you think you and yours should do the same?
If not, OK by me.

Here is a trend the therapist may like. It is called Earthing or Grounding.
Here's a site that explains it:

http://www.earthinginstitute.net/?page_id=101

I am NOT affiliated with this site or program at all. I bring it up because
people have need for this stuff and are willing to buy from a professional
in the field. I would take it she is considered a professional. With a
little research she may even become an expert in it.

I am not saying that is what she should do. I am saying instead of crying
the blues, a major time waster, try converting that energy into something
productive, a major time enhancement.

As far as marketing her skills, you as a published author in numerous
publications should be able to help her market her product. Take what
little pittance they offer for your article and use your sig line to sell
her books, reports, products. You sound smart enough to know how to
construct a marketing plan. She sounds smart enough to write the material.
God, what a great combination.

If I still maintained my websites, I'd become an affiliate and market them
with you. I have only one, http://senior2senior.org, and I don't market
anything from that site but the Ministry's senior magnets. Otherwise I'd
help you on that site too.

As for having been there, well maybe I should have left that out. Like I
said nobody gives a rat's ass about what us old farts have experienced.
Hell, we can't teach anybody anything.

Although, I will tell you about a 3rd grade dropout born in 1913 who ended
up w/a deadbeat husband and 2 kids. Her husband used to steal her wages so
he could gamble and if she gave him the money to pay the heating oil bill
he'd gamble that too for example. Yet, she managed to own a beauty salon,
buy and sell homes, and a few other things. And for 45 of those years she
had diabetes.

How tough do you think she had it when wages were 50¢ an hour, her hus=
band
was a gambleholic and 2 kids too feed? Oh yeah, in those days women weren't
shit. They were cattle or thereabouts yet she persevered and just kept her
eye on what was ahead and available. Never complained, out loud at least,
but never threw in the towel either.

She never asked for a handout only a hand up. I bet we all could take a
lesson there.

OK, lecture over. I will never say another word about it.

Good luck to you and yours and I hope the golden goat visits your lawn.

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:45 AM, The Order of the Fighting Fathers <
fightingfathers@igroops.com> wrote:

> -- The following message was posted by (SamMadden) in the "Social
> Justice" category. All replies to this e-mail will be sent to the group =
--
>
> Tom,
>
> You try to make it sound so easy and state you have been there too. No on=
e
> from your or my generation has been in a position that couldn't pay for
> their college on their own by working full time during the summer, or par=
t
> time during during the school year.
>
> I have been where you are, I have not been where my niece, nephew and the
> young generation of today are.
>
> It is not that easy to sell knowledge and talents today and people are
> getting paid less for it when they do because of the internet, (there are
> just so many are doing it). For example:
>
> A friend of mine has a creative writing degree, the best she could do wit=
h
> a lot of work mind you, is find a website to pay her $25 per article. Whe=
n
> I told her that the minimum I ever got paid was $175 for an article it bl=
ew
> her mind. But that was before the proliferation of the internet. Nowadays
> even with my experience and being published in major magazines it is very
> difficult to get paid anything decent, if at all, for writing a very
> knowledgable well written piece.
>
> As far as forgiveness on a student loan legally, that is a myth. A lot of
> students today are choosing to default on purpose because of the load but
> their are consequences. And the way my family was raised, is that your wo=
rd
> and signature means something.
>
> https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/default
>
> And as this second link shows, forgiveness of a student loan is very
> difficult to obtain and must have extraordinary circumstances which the
> vast majority of college graduates today do not qualify under.
>
> https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation
>
>
>
> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You are receiving e-mail notifications for *every post*.  These notifi=
cations can be turned off in your user settings at <a href="http://www.ig=
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<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

--94eb2c0885beb77753051c2d4c1e--


Economic Social Justice